What Makes a Police Agency a Business?
So how can a police department be anything like a business?
Lights, sirens, good guys, bad guys, TV shows and movies, the 6 o’clock news; it all looks too sporadic and out of hand to be anything like a business. We know the cops are there (not to everyone’s liking of course); they come when we call, but it pretty much starts and ends there.
It looks nothing like the stores where we shop, or the manufacturing plant where the things we buy are made. Police departments do not sell anything for a profit, and they do not manufacture anything. They are a service though, even though they do not charge for their services.
Some people get the business/consumer relationship when they say “I pay your salary!”, and, they are right.
The fact that policing is a professionally provided service qualifies it as a business. It also makes the grade because of it’s large operating budget, human resource demands, facility holdings and vehicle and other equipment inventories, and most importantly but sometimes unrecognized, the relationship to it’s customers. Don’t be distracted by the lights and sirens; police agencies are constantly in motion, making payroll, recruiting and hiring, buying and purchasing and utilizing large operating budgets.
All of this begs a few questions:
- What is the purpose of this business? If the purpose of a business is to make money today (and more tomorrow); where does policing fall? Just what is the bottom line?
- As with any other business; who are the competitors? Are there substitutes in the market that customers can turn to?
- What strategies are in play?
- Can a police department market itself? Can it establish it’s brand and maintain the brand?
- What are the financial considerations, given the department is not in the business of turning a profit? Are taxpayers getting the highest return on their investment that is possible?
- How do we know if this business called a police department is successful or not? Is it getting ahead, falling behind, or simply breaking even? What measurements are available to let us know?
“Not doing more than the average is what keeps the average down.”
William Lyon Phelps
“Professional policing a business?” Why does this leave a sour taste in my mouth when I say it? Maybe, because when I graduated from the police academy, I was ready to put down my life to serve and protect, while enforcing state laws?
Just the administrative side of the PD; so it does not take anything away from what we do on the road.
As a law enforcement officer, you should hope that your CEO (Chief, Sheriff, Colonel, etc) does run the operation as a business. The CEO’s job is to be the visionary and capture resources for the agency, which permits the agency to pay salaries and benefits, purchase resources (cars, gas, guns, bullets, body armor, etc), conduct training and otherwise expend resources for the good of its constituents and staff. An agency cannot spend money it does not have and the CEO needs to be the rainmaker with the city council, county commissioners, etc. Clearly the objective is not to make a profit, but even non-profit organizations need to run like a business.
I believe customer service is what makes a police department a business, all businesses depend on good customer service, ours is 24-7.
All police departments are businesses because they must maintain a budget and operate within it. They have to allocate resources and make sure the department is not wasting them on things that don’t maintain the public trust and order within the community. Police departments also need to continue to train and educate their officers and staff, as well as the other city departments and community partners they serve in order to be effective consistently in the community. It’s a paramilitary organization however, if you don’t run it as a business then you will not be able to serve the community competently for any extended period of time.
If you are a biz, a corporation, we would need a contract for you to act over me, right?
How can you assume jurisdiction over real people with no obligation, or contract?
Do you enforce LAW OF THE LAND or Maritime legal law?
Are you trained in LAW OF THE LAND officers?
Do you officers know much about Land, Air, Water law? Common law, natural law?
Why can’t Burger King give me parking tickets? They have no contract with me.
Why can you? No contract! Understand brothers what JURISDICTION really is.
Who makes money from this business?
How many of you have been in a PUBLIC courthouse and seen NATURAL LAW practiced? Why do you go to a maritime court and play by their corporate rules?
Where does your authority really come from?
Wake up Brothers! What do you know about the Constitution that you are
sworn to uphold??
God created man
man created government to protect private natural RIGHTS
guv created lower realms like your dept.
LOVE is the hope for this planet.
let’s love the cops who love us
we want peace
peace officers!
God bless
Very thought provoking. Not many stellar performers in the business world of law enforcement. So, what would it be like to have a “CEO” with no law enforcement background, but with a business and marketing degree?
Perfect point; that said, would there be a place for a true business unit in a police department?
Wayne Walker
Retired LEO/ Fire Fighter/ EMT/ Diver
David: I understand where you are coming from as far as a Business Advisor. But part of this also slaps the regular people in the face that go out & put their lives on the line for you and me, 24/7/365.
If you want to take a poke at the admin level then do it. Ultimately it’s in their hands what the budget is. If I misunderstood what you were trying to say sorry. But that’s my perception of the article.
17 days ago
Doug Arnoldt ( LION )3300 +
Retired Law Enforcement Professional !
I agree with my brother Wayne. So many show about Cops , some good some bad ! Heck been going on for generations !
17 days ago
David Lyons, MBA
Author of PoliceBusinessAdvisor.com
No worries Wayne. The direction I am taking is that the functional (internal) workings of a PD could be smoother if some of the practices that are used in successful corporations (when applicable of course) are employed. In turn, things would run easier for those on the road, and in some cases, I think the administrators would get more on their wish lists from the governments that they are funded by with strong business arguments (including more personnel and better pay). Thanks for taking the time to look it over and more so for commenting. I am looking for as many perspectives as I can get.
17 days ago
Doug Arnoldt ( LION )3300 +
Retired Law Enforcement Professional !
Ah Cop or ole Law Dog, PIG ! Pride , Intergity , and Guts ! Protect and Serve ! Take the Oath and do what has ta be done ! Die if you have to ! And Walk Tall ! But ya take the SOB in , ya trust your gut and do what ya have to do , and suck up the pain and the shit that goes with it ! More pain , and more gain ! And never but never be intimataded by some weak ass sob that thinks thar tougher ! They got it wrong , scumbags! They lost we are the overcomer’s we will hunt your ass down and take you in ! Unh said !!!!
17 days ago
But resent the fact that our officers in Blue think all public and private citizens are Perps !!!
What happened to innocent until proven guilty ?
Scott Jacobs, JD, MHR, BPA
Man of Leisure
Mr Lyons- You posted an interesting article- thank you for that. But the simple answer to your question “What makes a police agency a busioness?” is, Nothing. Your suggestion that providing professional services qualifies a police agency as a business is unfounded.
Merriam Webster defines Business as: “the activity of making, buying, or selling goods or providing services in exchange for money.”
Since law enforcement agencies are publicly funded and not on a “fee-for-service” basis, this falls outside of the plain meaning of what a “business” is.
When one has only a hammer all problems look like nails. Could it be your MBA frames your view of law enforcement in a way that emphasizes similarities with bona fide businesses? Law enforcement should strive to be efficient an economical, but the function and purpose is to keep the peace and protect life and property. It is not a business interest it is a public interest.
Your experience as a law enforcement officer should remind you of Sir Robert Peel’s observatoin that the people are the police and the police are the people. That’s already 100% market share- and not in need of whiz-bang enterprise marketing suggested by your article.
It was a nice read though, even if, IMHO, a little misguided.
6 days ago
You hit the proverbial nail right in the head. The other thing that no one has address is the real business end of this question. How do police officers/supervisors and PDs, as a whole, qualify the PD budgets? It’s obvious that materials have to be accountable for, but how is services provided accounted for? Should it be based on arrests made or how peaceful a sector is maintained patrolling and engaging with the people? In other words, what determines how a PO is viewed by superiors?
You hit the proverbial nail right in the head. The other thing that no one has address is the real business end of this question. How do police officers/supervisors and PDs, as a whole, qualify the PD budgets? It’s obvious that materials have to be accountable for, but how is services provided accounted for? Should it be based on arrests made or how peaceful a sector is maintained patrolling and engaging with the people? In other words, what determines how a PO is viewed by superiors?
Well the officers do write tickets. That is revenue. They charge violations..that is revenue.
John Moakley
Investigator/TAC at TBTA
Interesting concept, and a reasonable thought – as long as everyone understands that it is not the business of policing to pander to money and to turn a profit. Policing is one of the many with the purpose of providing a priceless commodity, rather than any for sale, for it is the business of government to provide to the people that which they can not or should not provide for themselves.
When you write a police budget, you need to remember that the human assets can never truly be compensated for their worth, but you have to set a figure anyhow. You need to know that expenditures for fuel may not give you a dollar for dollar return. If necessary, you need to run in the red from time to time, to meet legal and moral obligations.
First, define the mission. Second, plan how you will fulfill the mission. Third, execute your plan. Fourth, evaluate and adjust accordingly.
Sounds an awful lot like something else…Observe, Orient, Decide and Act. Engage and Evaluate. Cover, Assess and Holster if appropriate.
Bottom line is that money is not the bottom line in policing. Public safety is. Sometimes money needs to be spent where a business wouldn’t normally spend it, because it is the right thing to do.
15 days ago
David Lyons, MBA
Author of PoliceBusinessAdvisor.com
15 days ago
Erik Voss
Police Sergeant at Town of Delavan
The difference with the police business is that the customer isn’t always right.
15 days ago
David Lyons, MBA
Author of PoliceBusinessAdvisor.com
LOL! So true!
15 days ago
Charlie Duke
Founder of Core Focus Consulting – Law Enforcement Consulting (aka Lecsscore LLC)
I have always considered law enforcement to be much more than a business and more like a calling. Descriptors such as truth, honor, integrity, justice and public service would be more applicable to our profession. However, I have always believed we should use business type practices to improve the services we provide. Business operations are aimed at improving effectiveness and efficiency, and law enforcement operations should also optimize effectiveness and efficiency. After several years of double digit crime reductions we were skeptical that we could achieve further reductions. Yet, through the use of innovative programs and increased focus, we achieved even more reductions in crime. Management of criminal and personnel investigations, risk management assessments of personnel, and advanced planning can also be enhance law enforcement operations. For example, my management paper for college involved freeing up detectives to get out in the field by using specialist reserve officers to conduct many of the time intensive routine computer queries. In other words the detective would provide a request for license plate, property and people to be queried, with the investigation number attached to ensure the queries were appropriate, and when the detective came in the next morning all of his requested inquiries would be on his or her desk. The use of specialist reserve officers to conduct many of these time consuming computerized queries had the potential to increase investigative field time significantly. Organizing field operations to optimize effectiveness in crime analysis, strategy development and assessment all use business type concepts to improve effectiveness and efficiency of operation.
I am opposed to using traffic enforcement or arrests to raise funds for local governments. In my opinion, it unnecessarily reduces public support when cities are known as traffic traps. Traffic enforcement should only be for significant safety violations and violations that obstruct the flow of traffic. Too often we forget that there are three E’s to traffic fatality reduction, Education, Engineering and Enforcement.
14 days ago
Your last paragraph had the most weight as far as I see it. I think that many PDs and individual officers as well, tend to forget the “public support” part in doing their jobs. They fail to understand that if the people see a PO committing an injustice, lying or being demanding & aggressive to another citizen, that it will erode confidence and will not want to engage let alone view the police as a positive force.
Completely agree!
Paul Downing FCMI BSc(Hons)
Director/Consultant/Coach/Volunteer & Councillor
David – for policing read NHS? or any other state run ‘venture’?
You ask –
•What is the purpose of this business? If the purpose of a business is to make money today (and more tomorrow); where does policing fall? Just what is the bottom line?
Cost Recovery is not uncommon… and if not make money the drive is on not to spend it. The Met Police Service London UK (or it’s police authority) are creating an income stream by selling off property/properties… clearly not a funding stream that will last a long time, but it will raise a few bob. The College of policing sells its services and other forces sell for example sell Training too.
•As with any other business; who are the competitors? Are there substitutes in the market that customers can turn to?
Many and varied – private eyes and classy looking ‘investigation companies’, Group 4 and other security firms for perimeter protection, stewards at sporting/entertainment venues… the armed forces re security of the nation, Local Authority wardens in all their guises looking after parks and double yellow lines…
•What strategies are in play?
Pass!
•Can a police department market itself? Can it establish it’s brand and maintain the brand?
Yes and they do – plenty of ‘self-promotion’ look at the Training world again
•What are the financial considerations, given the department is not in the business of turning a profit? Are taxpayers getting the highest return on their investment that is possible?
Ever increasing as Chiefs become even more conscious of audit and best value…a bit like Tesco’s? One in most towns, supply a service (sometimes 24/7), have competition and oh yes as my financial advisor told me – not currently making a profit… do/will (Tesco) share holders get a return on their investment… don’t the public with low levels of crime and generally a very safe place to bring up your kids (I’m talking public places – not Tesco’s now)!
16 days ago
Martin Palmer
Experienced Manager & Trainer: Looking for new opportunities
Nicely put Paul
15 days ago
Garry Dobson
Lecturer Centre for Policing, Intelligence and Counter Terrorism
Sorry but in my opinion you are confusing the adoption of practices with the fundamentals of what a business is. Policing is not a commercial venture at its core, it is a publicly funded utility that has a requirement to ensure that the community is as safe and secure as the funding the community provides will allow. The community aren’t shareholders. They may well be stakeholders of a type but they are not shareholders. The problem is that people keep trying to bludgeon policing into being a business instead of ensuring that the funds provided are used efficiently and effectively. By all means adopt practices that improve accountability and responsiveness but as for being a business, it just isn’t so.
Regards
15 days ago
The fact that defending ones self is very expensive means justice comes with a costly price tag.
How many times when the record shows you are arrested is also translated into ” guilty ” when that is not always the case.
Paul Downing FCMI BSc(Hons)
Director/Consultant/Coach/Volunteer & Councillor
Happy to debate on (but not die in any ditches)… but for example is a Charity a ‘business’… Funded by the public- like the police, governing boards – that might equate to Police Command Teams, trustees = police authorities, paid posts (ditto police), volunteers (ditto police)…own assets – capable of borrowing funds and support the needy public…
If a Charity is a business… and i think that the big ones are, then is this definition not one that fits the police too… what is it that the police do that is not ‘business like’??
My experience of sitting around tables at Force HQ’s with Finance managers, HR Leads, Corporate Services, oh and the odd cop makes me think that Policing PLC has definitely arrived… and the College of Policing Strategic Command Course even has a one week module on Business Skills for future ACPO…the commercial centre might not be pro-active in raising revenue but thanks to Lean Management definitely is focused on reducing waste – and this is very business like…. agree that the word business needs to be defined or sharpened (for this ‘string’)…but when I see the College encouraging in direct Supts …you gotta think this aligns to City Head Hunters… what other category of ‘work’ does policing fit into… or are we saying that that is it, policing is unique…it is ‘policing’.
14 days ago
You are so on TARGET.
Garry Dobson
Lecturer Centre for Policing, Intelligence and Counter Terrorism
But that is exactly the issue, having a number of business practices incorporated into the operation of an organisation doesn’t make it a business. What makes an organisation a business is the need to acquire funds and assets for the purposes of making money that can then be returned to the owners in the form of profit. There’s nothing wrong with adopting ethical practices, complying with statutory requirements or reporting on performance, just like a business but there is a distinct difference if philosophy about what a business is and what a police force is. 20 years ago my force thought it made sense to equate policing with McDonalds because they had infrastructure, a front counter, uniforms and local managers. All it did was alienate 17000 people and create a major resistance to the adoption of good practices.
The fact that ACPO or the College have some involvement in developing the managerial skills of senior officers should signal at least a couple of things. First, the core requirement for police is to be police and the need to support that core function with additional skills is necessary. Second, that government policy requires police officers to move away from their core front line duties to perform non-policing related functions. Third, there is a genuine need for policing to adopt a professional model of practice.
Finally, having professional staff who are expert practitioners in finance, corporate services is precisely what forces need to take care of the business support functions. What forces don’t need and assuredly can’t afford is to have expert policing practitioners performing back room operations that already have expert practitioners available to perform.
Regards
14 days ago
David Lyons, MBA
Author of PoliceBusinessAdvisor.com
Agreed! http://policebusinessadvisor.com/2014/08/03/the-police-business-unit/
14 days ago
Mike Addison MAIRSO
Director – MCA Corp Ltd Road Safety & Casualty Reduction Initiatives
I recall many years ago working with an exchange officer from ‘palm beach’ USA. We discussed ‘sickness’ and ‘moral’ amongst his colleagues and I was surprised when he told me that in the main, sickness was due to injury and moral was very high amongst his colleagues.
He said that was able to earn good money through the police service in his off duty time as a substantive police officer delivering either ‘private cost policing’ or as an instructor training members of the public who pay, after signing a disclaimer, to learn from the police how to, drive, ride, shoot, skid, handle dogs & horses and pretty much anything else that ‘the police’ are regarded as being very good at.
Of course, officers who are unfit for duty or choose not to develop their own skills to pass on would not be eligible to take part.
I’m no expert but it sounded like a simple sustainable business model to me which also seems to address ‘sickness’ and ‘moral’
In the UK we seem to shy away from sharing what we know with the public and dispose of the very resources we could using like turning a state of the art skid pan into a car park.
Regards
3 days ago
Paul Downing FCMI BSc(Hons)
Director/Consultant/Coach/Volunteer & Councillor
Garry – I think we agree that there are business processes at work…and professional people doing jobs that if carried out outside a ‘nick’ or force HQ would be business like… but the ‘policing’ element of ‘policing’ (is this feeling collars, stopping speeding cars, clipping scrumpers around the ear…?) is becoming more ‘distant’… how many cops actually do early/lates and nights and how many are in offices (either in a police building, council facility, Neighbourhood Office – doing ‘problem solving’? talking a good job, researching and planning? and this is my argument – these roles equate to Business Processes but are very much about policing local areas…years ago ‘plod’ would simply turn up, book on, go to a briefing, make the tea and walk their beat… far more is required now – based on lean Management techniques… There is no shareholder per se (expecting a dividend though the precept ensures ‘shares’ are bought, there is no profit, but there is a business… fancy a pint?
12 days ago
Garry Dobson
Lecturer Centre for Policing, Intelligence and Counter Terrorism
Paul, always up for a beer. Next time I am in the UK I’ll run you to ground!
There is a point that people inevitably ignore/overlook/don’t understand and that is that policing is not a business no matter how much devotees of NPM and neo-liberalism would wish it so. There is no industry like policing. The requirements on its personnel, the expectations of the people they protect, the accountability and responsibility they carry, the trust that is placed on them and indeed the expectations of their fellow workers makes policing something that no other industry has. Yes, other industries may have elements of this and indeed a few may have a lot of similarities with what we do but the fact is that the combined effect of all these things places policing in a very unique and highly onerous position. The functions of policing are not a business that is it. The activities that support police being police and performing the functions of policing can and should be done by professional staff who are specifically trained and qualified for the purpose. They can run the support function just like any other business but the policing element which represents both the core and the bulk of what a police force does is not and can never be a business.
Sadly, I’m old enough to have lived through all the iterations of what policing is. Arguably I have supported and driven some of the business functionality over the years but I have come to the conclusion that while it is important to employ some of the practices that are applied in other organisations, policing is just too different to be conducted with the philosophy and underpinning of being a business. People are not commodities.
Regards
11 days ago
Martin Palmer
Experienced Manager & Trainer: Looking for new opportunities
During a conversation with a serving colleague yesterday it was mentioned that part of the reason for the Direct Entry Supt was so that they could bring into the Police their skills and knowledge of the business world outside of the Police and therefore improve the business processes within the Police. If that is the case, once they have finished their “training” I am curious as to what posts/positions they will be taking up ?
8 days ago
David Lyons, MBA
Author of PoliceBusinessAdvisor.com
What if they ‘stayed on’ as a unit of the organization that handled (with the right assistance to navigate the police culture) the business matters? That could end up becoming an incredibly strong asset.
8 days ago
Garry Dobson
Lecturer Centre for Policing, Intelligence and Counter Terrorism
I can’t pretend to be right across this direct entry stuff in the UK but if the forces need people with expertise to perform professional functions that aren’t policing specific then why wouldn’t they just hire them as civilians? I acknowledge that under the current structures employed in policing that senior police officers have to have some business oriented skills but that is due to the fact that the structures are outdated and inappropriate. It is easy to sit on the outside or even be on the inside but down on the factory floor and have opinions about what senior and executive police officers do, but unless you have done it you really don’t appreciate the pressures that are on to deliver an effective policing service.
As I have said previously we are the only industry that rewards expertise by removing it from active duty and replacing it with lesser qualified individuals. It just doesn’t make sense. Treating policing as a business only compounds the problems.
Regards
8 days ago
Paul Downing FCMI BSc(Hons)
Director/Consultant/Coach/Volunteer & Councillor
Not sure if that’s right Garry, plenty of staff in plenty of businesses move away from front line duties in order to move on up… get parallel experiences… think nursing… not all nurses want to be on wards all of their career. Talented Bank Clerks get experience on the counter but to become managers move behind screens… god street cops might remain on patrol, but there are plenty of average ones too… good street cops might bring those skills to management, but equally a good manager does not necessarily have to have front line experience, though clearly this helps… moving on from Policing I have found that my skills, knowledge and understanding of policing across the board has helped me in LAP… life after policing… working across the third sector… could the reverse not be true… good business people with all the right skills not make excellent cops…. in fact they do… where do we get new recruits from… well from almost any sector… but we make them do two years plodding first… is that good business… holding back careers because of process… I think that ‘business’ identifies true talent far faster than policing and so in that respect perhaps policing isn’t so business like?
7 days ago
Garry Dobson
Lecturer Centre for Policing, Intelligence and Counter Terrorism
Paul, nurses have to be certified fit for practice annually and do so by working as nurses. Those who don’t want to be nurses be something else. Bank tellers are part of a bureaucracy. Think more about accountants and lawyers and doctors. I’m having my back operated on next month do I want the junior doctor with one or two years service or the head of neurosurgery? No brainer really. And which one gets paid the most? The hospital is chockoblock full of accountants, HR managers, administrators etc all good people who have chosen a career/profession doing what they do but but the nurses are nurses and the doctors are doctors. No fast tracking plumbing managers in as head of urology, no electrical engineers as neurologists. Just doctors being doctors. That’s what being a profession is all about. Policing can do it. Just have to have the willpower, determination and stomach for it.
That you have a career away from the frontline is commendable. I too have made the transition but that means I am no longer a registered police practitioner, I am an academic.
Oh, I have no issue with good people with other careers becoming police officers, just so long as they go through the same processes and develop the same expertise as a professional practitioner that any registered, certified police officer has. The problem is as I understand it that what the UK is doing is importing managers. Well that’s fine as long as they are managing and not practicing as a professional police officer – just like hospital administrators.
Regards
7 days ago
Spankc Nwacrewster
Law Enforcement Professional
as a constable my hurts are they the police turned lets say harden hearted dont understand mines 4th amendment and 1st
17 days ago
Tom M. Conley, CPP, CISM, CMAS
The Conley Group, Inc.
It is definitely a business; albeit non-profit.
17 days ago
Marty Jones
Retired MSgt from USAF at Retired LT. from Sugarcreek TWP Police Greene CO. Ohio
The fact that most Police Departments live on voters to support their leveys, make them a business. Officers need to learn that the folk that they deal with will have to make a decision to spend more money to keep the department going. Wave to your citizens. Smile wile you wave. Treat them with dignity and respect. They do pay your salary and if you want more money, then you better treat them right.
17 days ago
David Lyons, MBA
Author of PoliceBusinessAdvisor.com
Marty you are spot on! Thank you for offering that!
17 days ago
Kenneth Turner
Supervisor-Evening Watch at Henry County Board of Commissioners
I don’t believe policing is a business in the “business” sense. We don’t even want to draw comparisons between the two because the driving principles between running a for-profit company and providing police protection are worlds apart. Yes there are financial considerations but that is little to do with ‘business” of law enforcement. Focus should always be on the “product” delivered and not the financial considerations. Had a fellow tell me one time that the department needed to be run like a Fortune 500 company but he could never tell me how you did that since those companies are bottom line driven.
17 days ago
Tom M. Conley, CPP, CISM, CMAS
The Conley Group, Inc.
Mark:
That is why I compared the police business to a non-profit. From that viewpoint, policing is a business in the “business” sense. The problem is governments far too often operate as though there is an endless stream of cash. And, they virtually “lock up” when their budget is cut.
The simple truth is there are many creative ways to be highly-effective and save money too. Ethical leaders understand and follow this concept.
Tom
17 days ago
Kenneth Turner
Supervisor-Evening Watch at Henry County Board of Commissioners
Tom,
I am not suggesting that there is an endless stream of cash but the truth is, if police services are going to be provided, it will always result in an expenditure. There is no return other than gratification of the citizenry. We do need to be fiscally responsible and I agree that we should employ cost saving ideas but that is less business sense and more responsibility.
17 days ago
Tom M. Conley, CPP, CISM, CMAS
The Conley Group, Inc.
Ken:
I concur with you and did not mean to insinuate that there is, in any way, an endless stream of cash. There is “X” amount that police services cost the taxpayer period. Rather, my concern is I have seen government agencies waste literally millions of dollars that could have been invested in direct police services. An example is agencies that buy new radios NOT because they need them for upgrades, but, simply because the money has been is budgeted to buy them. My point is, if the money does not need to be spent, then leaders should do the right thing and return to the taxpayers.
17 days ago
christine birdsall
investigations assistant at Troy Police Department
The police can be compared to a non-profit business, but the police are so much more. They enforce the law, maintain peace, do much volunteer work in the community, take abuse from their citizens, and they are expected to have higher standards. Yet, at the same time, the department and organization must maintain a budget and stay within it’s means.
16 days ago
Garry Dobson
Lecturer Centre for Policing, Intelligence and Counter Terrorism
We went through all this nonsense 20 years ago. Policing is not a business. Just because neo-liberal policies strive to introduce business type systems into an organisation doesn’t make it a business. Police forces are organisations that contain independently operating sworn personnel who have a primary responsibility for ensuring that the community is safe and secure. That there are some in the organisation that need to report on business like systems is incidental. Trying to jam a ‘customer’ ‘product’ or even ‘service’ into the policing paradigm is frankly a nonsense. This of course is quite distinct from the need for public monies to be used as efficiently and effectively as possible, but the reality is that there are no profits to be made by police forces.
Regards
16 days ago
Paul Thomas
retired at met.officer/trainer/mentor
you are right i remember it well garry
9 days ago
Paul Downing FCMI BSc(Hons)
Director/Consultant/Coach/Volunteer & Councillor
But Garry – some people do go into medical roles later in life – not all are in it from 18+… and I agree with you that the (police) managers have to understand the business… and I think that is where we came in… David asked the question “What Makes a Police Agency a Business?” and this (the employment of experienced ‘others’ as cops) is exactly in line with what businesses do… it is just one example, but in any case I think we have to agree to slightly differ… I have supplied the discussion with my thoughts on why Policing is a business… I’m not 100% certain that it is a profession (per se) (yet)… but its been great debating with you. Cheers.
Garry Dobson
Lecturer Centre for Policing, Intelligence and Counter Terrorism
Hi Paul. We are in furious agreement about at least one thing and that is that policing is not a profession yet. There are many police officers who act professionally but that is not the same thing. Your point about people going into professions late in life is spot on, in fact the oldest police recruit that I had through the academy in my time was 54 years old and a multi-millionaire. Just wanted to be a cop…
My point about police and policing is that it and they need to be a profession and focus on what their primary role is. I am often bemused by the number of people who quote Peels principles when talking about all things policing but always seem to overlook the fact that none of his principles related to business and that was because the business part of the operation apart from being obviously a lot less complex than today, wasn’t something that was seen as important to the role of the police officer. At least in that regard I agree with him.
Regards
David Lyons, MBA
Author of PoliceBusinessAdvisor.com
“policing is not a profession yet”; so true. It has made some pretty good strides, but I agree, it has a way to go.
mohd alhmaidat
Retired police officer at Jordan Police Dept
Hi David. the bottom line is that the policing is a profession if the police officers are professionals and this depend on the officers themselves and the administrations. Yes it,s , the police department can market itself in the time you find officers respecting their duties in the estimate of respecting their families.Police officer should be a professional of his treatment to the customers by respecting the justice his behaviors and serve them from the depth of his heart ,these all conditions make the police a high quality and easily market himself.
Garry Dobson
Lecturer Centre for Policing, Intelligence and Counter Terrorism
Hi Mohd,
Sorry to disagree with you but being professional is not the same as being in a profession. The first is an internalised set of behaviours that anyone performing any activity can display, while the second relates to the systems, processes and functions of the industry. Policing is still a long way from being a profession yet although the bulk of its officers are professional in their approach.
Regards
mohd alhmaidat
Retired police officer at Jordan Police Dept
hi Garry:
First of all I want you all to apologize me for the Language if I have mistakes.Second how can be a professionals officers and you consider the policing is not a profession? I respect your appoint a view but I want you to confenced me.
I think the police is the same in every where in the world they are doing a great job and they are facing many difficulties in many conditions so I think that here who prove to be professional or not in the way he deal the situations. Also I thing that some of the roles are changing and the new developments and the high awareness for the society are decreasing from the authorities of the police so some of them they are avoiding to involve and as possible as trying to be in the save side.
Regards
Garry Dobson
Lecturer Centre for Policing, Intelligence and Counter Terrorism
Hi Mohd,
No need to apologise. This is an international site so we all have to adapt to each other! Your questions are relevant but would require a lot of space to do them justice and a post on linked in won’t do it.
In summary though, policing is most assuredly not the same around the world. Human rights, democracy, governance, customs, values, traditions, training, education, systems, support, legislation and a whole host of other things all combine to give us the police forces we have. Some carry guns, some don’t, some have rifles, some don’t, some are part of the military, some aren’t, some are a national force, some are local. The result is that we have very different styles and quality of policing around the world.
As to the professionalism -v- profession element. By way of example a person who is a janitor in an office block can do their job professionally. They can be neat and tidy, punctual, polite, work hard and do everything that their employer requests of them, but is being a janitor the same as being part of a profession? No. It’s a job. It requires little in the way of education, advanced skills, industry standards, research and the kinds of things that defines a profession and that is the big difference. Policing is making some headway in moving towards being a profession but it still lacks in a number of critical areas.
Regards
I believe that at the point a law enforcement agency sets up as a corporation and has location listed as “corporate offices” , they have stepped across the line from public oath bound service territory, and across into a gray area. Many agencies that are set up as LLC or corporation no longer make officers take Constitutional oath. This is a huge problem.
Example:
Garfield County Colorado sheriff department has “corporate offices.”
Garfield County Colorado sheriff department
was more than happy to tell me, “We’re going to throw you in jail for the day to teach you a lesson in how to shut up. ” Constitutional right to freedom of speech violated. Guy who was yelling obscenity laced insults and threatening to tie me up and shoot me goes free.
These things are apparently acceptable for an agency that is a company not binding it’s officers to uphold the Constitution. Furthermore we have an epidemic of police officers shooting unarmed people in the back; breaking and entering without warrant and shooting people in their own home; shooting service animals; ignoring the pepper spray, night stick and taser our tax dollars got them, and instead going straight for their gun to shoot and kill now and ask questions later; and……….
So much horrible crap done by police. So much I am half minded to recommend, no as a taxpayer I insist, demand, and order that police maybe shouldn’t have the guns. Only citizens with guns. No more unconstitutional innocent unarmed MURDERS will be perpetrated by officers who are being paid by tax dollars stiffed out of citizen’s paychecks.
Sorry for the long delay in adding your comment; I do apologize.
I literally just retired after 28 years, and with regard to “an agency that is a company not binding it’s officers to uphold the Constitution”, I will be the first to admit that as an industry, regardless of the working model, we still have a lot of work to do in order to change our approach, and in turn, our image. One of my arguments on recognizing the business aspect, along with the incredible amount of stewardship required for the large budgets that departments operate with, is the customer service aspect and our monopoly on the services we provide. Granted, if some PDs were in a competitive environment, they would fail and leave the market quickly.
Interesting perspective; I hope to see you here more often.
Policing isn’t a business, it’s a structural organization that provides a mutually agreed upon service by the community through legislation and tax dollars; it never creates a dollar, it only ever absorbs a dollar for those paying in to it. Policing provides no tangible object or product that would make it a business period. By calling policing a business it means you’re taking away the neutrality of decision-making as businesses typically hang on the balance of if people wish to buy your product or not. By even calling it a business, it means those that benefit the most from it would be the ones who buy in to it more making a disingenuously unfair system. I find it extremely distasteful to even consider an organization that is supposed to be a pillar to the fabric of society for all as some business model index, because you equate them to “maintaining an inventory” or a “budgetary spreadsheet.”
I would truly question the integrity of any police officer who felt they were promoting the police construct in to some business strategy model.